Genpo’s “Big Mind, Big Heart, Big Money”


Big Mind, Big Heart, Big Ego...

Genpo on Buddhist Geeks

Can I just say one thing. You can ask me a question. I really don’t give a shit at this point in my life. I really don’t. I had a big breakthrough in June around the issue of caring and not caring and I feel I deeply, deeply, deeply care about all sentient beings. And all my work has evolved all sentient beings, where you have to become more conscious. And healthier and with less shadows.  And the other side of this triangle, I really don’t give a shit.  But go ahead and ask your question. 

Well Genpo, I do give a shit.  I really do.  I question the “guru” mentality that surrounds you and the likes of Ken Wilber, Bill Harris and Eckhart Tolle.  I give a shit because your “Wham Bam” dharma is the Buddhist equivalent of a “one-night stand”.  Sure! Its fun and he/she may be sexy and alluring but its just gonna leave you feeling crappy, sore and sticky in the morning. 

I posted about Big Mind previously and when reviewing Genpo’s interview on Buddhist Geeks I found that I was going back  to the same ol’ thing.  Namely, is selling the Dharma an effective way of getting it to everyone? Or does it simply get to those who can (or are willing to) pay for it?  When I expressed these concers in my older post, I explained my intent to some “Big Mind’ers” on Twitter.  I told ’em that my post is critical but I would love to hear their input – My mind not being made up but rather looking for some conversation on these issues.  Well, Bruce Hogen Lambson, Executive Director of Big Mind  was nice enough to comment and address these concerns. 

I’m really enjoying this discussion and wanted to throw in my two cents worth as Executive Director of the Big Mind organization. 

I appreciate the level headedness of the comments. You all make some very good points that always are on the agenda at our board meetings. 

First, we’re not making near as much as most people think, less than a million a year the last few years since we decided to start selling CDs, DVDs, Books and the usual meditation supplies like cushions and incense and running more retreats and workshops. 

And, just to be clear, Genpo Roshi is truly on a modest fixed salary as set by our 11 member board. 

Where does the money go? We have three buildings to pay mortgages on and maintain, and anyone who owns buildings built in the early 1900’s knows that the maintenance isn’t cheap. Luckily, within our roughly 200 member local sangha here in Salt Lake, we have some carpenters and electricians who help out, but when it comes to a new roof or serious plumbing repairs, we have to hire professionals. 

We also spend a substantial amount of money on supporting the 12 or so monks who are here studying for the priesthood full time. (These folks are doing it in the traditional fashion as prescribed by the Soto Zen school, which we are a part of.) This includes lots of sitting meditation and memorizing of the chants and formal services we do each day. In addition since Maezumi Roshi (and Genpo Roshi) was ordained in the Rinzai school, we also do koan study. The Big Mind work developed by Genpo Roshi is also a part of this, so our monks and laypeople get all of it if they aspire to become teachers themselves. 

How do we help the poor? We offer scholarships to almost all of our workshops and retreats to sincere students who request help. We also offer free mediation classes at local hospitals, prisons and even high schools here. In addition we run a Soup Kitchen in the winter here for the homeless. 

Also, starting about 3 months ago, because of new advances in internet technology, we are now broadcasting free our regular Sunday morning and Thursday evening talks from our website. 

You can find this on our site and then click on Big Mind TV. There’s also an “On Demand” section there that has a lot of interesting videos. By the way, this service costs us about $1,250 per month because of the amount of bandwidth used. And the cameras, computers, software and T-1 lines required are pricy too. So far though, over 8000 people representing 175 countries have taken advantage of this and we’re very happy about that. 

The one comment I hear fairly regularly on blogs about us is “I don’t know much about Big Mind but it sounds (fill in the blank).” 

I would love for you to explore this practice, and all the other things we do, and I invite you to join us. If you want to get a feel for our community, you can check us out on Facebook Big Mind Network. (Although I won’t necessarily vouch for everyone on there…) 

I think a big part of our job of spreading the dharma is to make it accessible in many different ways, and to build a community that supports us and each other. We think we’re doing that in an honest and forthright way. When I see what we have done, I’m happy and I don’t let people who are trashing our success bother me, while remaining open to your feedback. 

You can also phone me at 801-244-4940 or email to


Bruce Hogen Lambson 

This is exactly the type of comment that I would expect from the governance board of a large (even with only a 1 million dollar budget) organization.  They addressed my concerns, told me where I was lacking (which is fine! I lack a-plenty), and encouraged me to continue to experiment and explore. Great! I wish all Buddhist organizations were as quick to communicate with bloggers. *kaff, kaff, ahem* 

That being said, I erased my redundant (but fucking hilarious) review of Genpo’s Big Mind interview on Buddhist Geeks and instead went back over to to check out those resources that were promised to me.  I understand that any large organization requires fundraising and donations to stay afloat and producing.  I have worked at non-profits for years and I know that some amount of “exclusivity” is expected for those “Big Money” donors.  Their name on a wall or some fancy brunch.  Maybe a chance to hang out with a (minor) celebrity.  

Thinking back to some of those zendos that I list under my ” Zen Resources” page brought me back to the fact that they also rely on donations and sustained aid from practitioners.  Just look at San Fransisco Zen Center or the AudioDharma or Zencast!  What great resources and podcasts all for free to help us learn and practice the Dharma.  Lets see what Big Mind has in store for us humble practitioners along these lines…. 

Wait, hold on. 

Still looking…oh… 


Well, nothing for free. Except for that video with Ken Wilber speaking, I think, Klingon. 

Newsletter, also not free.  But what about “Zen Eye” where you can… 

Download over 300 hours of video and audio of Genpo Roshi’s live teaching sessions on Zen, Big Mind, Koans, Meditation and more directly to your computer! 

New material is posted every week, so you can stay up on the very latest Big Mind sessions with Genpo Roshi filmed live at the Big Mind Western Zen Center in Salt Lake City and from other live events around the world. 

Hmmmmm, this must be a mistake.  This is also not free.  In talking about benefiting sentient beings in the Buddhist Geeks podcast and defending his fundraising procedures, he sure doesn’t leave much for us.  And the title of that webpage was *ahem* “Home-Study“.  Personally, I think you would get better Dharma from my page. 

This is just one guy talking, but this little Dharma-shit prefers to sweep the dust and push the dirt.  Genpo promises that he wants to benefit others but it is looking more and more like everything has a price-tag at “Big Mind”.  You would be better off visiting my Zen Resources Page and find some resources that can actually aid your practice. 

I have no issue with putting a price tag on some aspects of Charma teaching.  An organization requires money to survive but when you look at the goal of “Big Mind” I think all you see are dollar signs.  This is far from the goal of…

build[ing] a community that supports us and each other.

Well, maybe it does but it builds its foundation on sales and not benefit.  Which makes it exclusive.




35 thoughts on “Genpo’s “Big Mind, Big Heart, Big Money”

  1. Very good points. I tell you what I like about the publications you can get from the Metta Forest Monastery in California, where Thanissaro Bhikkhu is located, is that they are all free. You can access them online for free at (as well as tons of other publications) or order them for free from the monastery. I always include a donation when I request copies, but how much I send is up to me.

    Boards are necessary for any Buddhist organization. Someone must take responsibility for a sangha’s financial well-being and its sustainability.

    However, Buddhism is not a franchise. It is a world view that is based on the cultivation of no-self.

    • I think a governance board is neccessary as long as they keep the actual goal or mission of the organization alive. In the case of Big Mind that goal seems to be to sell as much as possible. I am not saying that it is a bad thing. The books and most of the material is reasonably priced but don’t start talking about benefiting everyone when it is obvious that you are selling a product, plain and simple.

      As for ~ I think they are amazing in the amount they produce for the benefit of everyone in the understanding of the Dharma.

      I do think, to Big Mind’s credit, that they were willing to talk about themselves and their product. But Genpo needs to understand that he is just the “authentic” part of a marketing campaign.



  2. Very interesting post. This is the same sort of rock-star Buddhism that is prevalent in most traditions. It is a human weakness. Krishnamurti called such followers “Christ chasers”. He began to despise his own audience.
    It is also a dilemma. How do you have a sangha without raising funds? Who becomes the leader? Sex and money are the demons waiting in the wings to destroy everything.
    I have no answers.

    • Agreed, Don. This is why you need to create and mission and action plan so that the board has some direction to take in moving forward and becoming bigger. Very easy to lose direction.

      The problem with many boards is that they are tied into the organization they are overseeing. Looking at the “Advisory Board” of Big Mind is like looking over the old boy’s club of “For Sale Dharma”. I don’t think objectivity and compassion are driving that force.

      I think good organization is the key to keeping those demons in the wings. If Buddhism has taught me anything, it has taught me that you can not destroy craving and attachment, only de-emphasize it. Genpo and Big Mind (at least fom what i gathered from the interview) is now embracing those aspects.

      As always, Don, thanks for your comments.



  3. “The villain is o’er-raught of all my money.
    They say this town is full of cozenage,
    As, nimble jugglers that deceive the eye,
    Dark-working sorcerers that change the mind,
    Soul-killing witches that deform the body,
    Disguised cheaters, prating mountebanks,
    And many such-like liberties of sin…
    I greatly fear my money is not safe.”

    ~Wm. Shakespeare

  4. John, I can’t even bring myself to listen to that podcast. as soon as I saw it, the first thing I thought was…oh well…gotta wait for next week’s show.

    Is it worth listening to?

    My concern with quick enlightenment of any kind is that there is no emotional development that goes with it from taking the time to do daily practice. A clumsy metaphor is that it would be like giving a baby the button for an atom bomb…just because you CAN do a thing does not mean you SHOULD do a thing.

    • No, it isn’t worth listening to unless you just want to test out your patience. But the transcript, which I linked to, is worth reviewing.

      In it, IMO, I believe you see a man whose heart is in the right place but has aligned himself up with marketers and snake-oil salesmen. It is a shame to see.



      ps. I can’t reiterate enough how much I respect Buddhist Geeks for giving Genpo voice in this manner. It is a learning experience for us all.

      • ps. I can’t reiterate enough how much I respect Buddhist Geeks for giving Genpo voice in this manner. It is a learning experience for us all.

        Ditto. Multiple perspectives on this debate are important.

  5. Here’s the thing: Nearly all temples and churches are Nonprofit Corporations. As far as I can tell by searching with Utah Secretary of State Big Mind or the Big Mind Western Zen Monastery is not such. They may have one but I’m betting they’re a for profit corp. which says a lot about what their goals are as an organization are. Genpo might be a great teacher but he’s associated with a corporation, which is a legal person with goals defined by it’s charter. In a for-profit corp. one of the goals is always sustainability aka profit for its owners/shareholders. At the very least it makes outsiders liek you and me not trust him or those who recommend and associate with his group.

  6. Well, I have to out myself as the Board President of my sangha. It’s been an interesting experience, focusing on finances and future goals for a Zen community. Our community membership is probably about 130 households right now – the largest in Minnesota, but not terribly big. We have nothing like the Big Mind Center in terms of “products” for sale, and our marketing is very small scale (sometimes even too small). Spending three years on the board has shown me the great complications that come with financing dharma institutions in capitalist countries that have no history of dana or giving to such organizations.

    One of my main issues with Genpo and others like him is that they are giving into the view that it’s in our best interest to go along with the global capitalist approach, and somehow, the dharma will just manifest for people if we just use the tools of capitalism to sell it. This is an absolute failure to address both the huge amounts of suffering being produced by this system, as well as the fact that many Buddhist teachings run completely against the grain of a for profit system.

    We have to do our best to work within this system, while also challenging the sickness of it all. That’s my view. And because of this, there’s going to be some quandaries when it comes to funding. Do you take money from a questionable source if it means keeping the doors open? What strings attached are ok, and which aren’t? How do you fund an organization through a Buddhist lens in a country that is mostly non-Buddhist?

    A few years ago, I actually looked at a grant from the Lenz Foundation for our sangha, not knowing a lot about his history at that time. There was something off about it to me, so I didn’t pursue it. There has been a lot of talk about Tricycle magazine accepting money from the Lenz Foundation, and I agree this is somewhat troubling. However, they have also helped fund the following organizations during the past 8 years: Upaya Zen Center, Zen Hospice Project, Naropa University, Prison Dharma Network, Spirit Rock Meditation Center, and Great Mountain Zen Center. They’re also considering a grant for the Insight Meditation Center, among others.

    The problem is that there aren’t very many places to go for Buddhist organizations to go to for outside funds. I think we need a national Buddhist funding body, with regional affiliates – this is one idea I’ve had anyway. Because as it is now, the Big Mind approach is kind of attractive if you ignore the impact of giving into the drives of “the shadows.” And if you’ve reject that approach, then you end up taking a look at things like the Lenz Foundation. Or you hobble along like my center does, breaking even or losing some money each year, and hoping to get enough membership money and class payments to make it to the next year. It’s a troubling cycle that’s a response to a difficult, complex, and ultimately destructive economic system.

    • Wonderful comment from an “insider”, Nathan! Thanks much!

      Just looking at my small, little sangha. We have zero money. Actually we have alittle bit from our own donations to keep us in incense and beer (just kidding about the beer). But I don’t think it behooves us to grow in that way just yet.

      And Nathan, it sounds like you are doing the right thing by critically evaluating where your funding comes from. We had a similar discussion about ours and as long as we understand what it means and what it could do to an organization, we are following the right path.

      But to just say we need to capitalize on the Dharma to survive is destructive, in that I agree with you.




    • One of my main issues with Genpo and others like him is that they are giving into the view that it’s in our best interest to go along with the global capitalist approach, and somehow, the dharma will just manifest for people if we just use the tools of capitalism to sell it. This is an absolute failure to address both the huge amounts of suffering being produced by this system, as well as the fact that many Buddhist teachings run completely against the grain of a for profit system.

      We have to do our best to work within this system, while also challenging the sickness of it all. That’s my view.

      Well said.

  7. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of non-profit and tax status can answer this query:

    Might some of this might be remedied if Buddhist organizations fell under religious tax-exemption? While I have heard that there are exceptions, my experience is that since Buddhism does not prescribe dogmatic teachings about belief in a god, they do not get tax exempt status and have to jump through additional hoops to get non-profit status.

    Is it possible that if we agreed that Buddhism is a religion- which, if it isn’t it is (as I’ve said before) a replacement for religion if nothing else- that organizations (not necessarily Big Mind as I know little about it) that tend to be profit-driven or ego-driven would be revealed to be personality cults, out for their own gain?

    Again, just a fringe question here. I have read occasional books by this company and others like it, but mostly I study the original, dry suttas themselves. I am not an expert in new-age Buddhism or corporation law, but I fully accept the possibility that these kinds of groups are part of the emerging American Buddhism.

    What will that mean for us? No idea.

    • Hey Emily

      I’ve been researching in this area for a while now and here’s some of the things I’ve found out.

      Buddhism is completely protected under the US Constitution in the provisions of the 1st Amendment as a religion.

      Here is a link to 1st Amendment and related matters from religious tolerance website.

      While it is not mentioned specifically in the Constitution there have been numerous court cases involving Buddhists and the 1st Amendment. A short history of some of these is at the Heartland Sangha website here:

      Buddhism is a valid religion for tax exempt status in most countries including the U.S. There are provisions for religious non-profit organizations that only require a form to be filled out. Most temples, organized sanghas and even outfits like the Lenz Foundation have a non-profit status like this. Lenz Foundation-Frederick Lenz used to be called Master Rama or some kind of New Agey name like that- is in the process of giving away over 5 million dollars to various “friends” of their particular perspective-the money has come from followers.

      There are literally thousands of tiny, small, medium and large non-profit organizations of a non-Christian religious nature. A person could even make up their own religion and get this status. The set of specific beliefs is not relevant to the application, only the element of “religious” or “spiritual” endeavor. As one of the judges in one of those cases mentioned in the article above said it is a matter of “With this case it was then that “religion” was determined as “ultimate concern.” “Ultimate concern” meaning death, life, afterlife, ethics and those kinds of things that are generally addressed in a religious context.

      That being said consider some of the excesses and abuses in the Christian context. The mega-churches with millions of dollars in donations every year and the scandals of what’s been spent by some of those leaders.

      Religious status doesn’t protect the sangha from the greed of leaders just as it doesn’t protect a Christian congregation from an unscrupulous pastor or those that have access to the funds.

      I do agree that it may be a rising trend in Buddhism and even may ultimately get as entrenched as it is in Christianity, or even in some of the extravagance of some sanghas in Asia. But that doesn’t mean we have to just sit by and let it pass unnoticed.

      So I guess that’s what it means for me.

  8. Yeah, it’s challenging I have to say. I have a hard time wholesale dismissing groups that end up taking money from questionable sources, although doing so will make me look more critically at what the organization is doing. Three years ago, my sangha was at the bottom of the fallout from a teacher scandal, and had to fork out over 30% of our reserve fund to cover a budget deficit. We lost money the next year as well, but not nearly as much. I think it would have been harder to turn down questionable money if it had been available, and things had been any worse for us financially. I really feel like it’s going to be the job of our generation and those coming immediately after us to really advocate for different approaches to funding than what’s been done up until now, and to view all of this in a more systemic, connected way that both expresses the dharma of dependent co-arising, and also runs counter the over emphasis on independent Buddhist franchising – i.e. a new sangha with it’s own funding for every new teacher model that’s so strong right now.

    And this impacts even those of us who are solely online because some of the resources we’re using on here are from these same sanghas, so there has to be an awareness that even “independent” practitioners have some stake in the future of Buddhist institutions.

    The Jodo Shinshu school in the U.S. is, maybe, an example for us newer groups. They have a national headquarters that leads funding projects, and helps link all the individual Jodo Shinshu temples across the country in various ways. I don’t know if they have any troubles in terms of hierachically domination and suppression of creative ideas; that might be something to look into.

  9. Ohio Buddhist – we are considered religious organizations in terms of our tax status. this actually makes it harder to get funding from most granters because they don’t fund orgs with specifically religious aims. Or they only fund a specific group – like Christian organizations.

    My sangha is a non-profit by law. We’ve jumped through that hoop, but there’s not many places to go on the other side.

  10. this is so freaking great, thank you… my gift for 2010. As a buddhist for about 2 mos, hese ‘gurus’ confuse and befuddle and confound me. So flashy and so alluring… but I need something authentic and with substance.

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  12. we have a small sangha about 30 to 40 people and did alot of jumping thru hoops to get non-profit, however one of our members is a lawyer and did most of the work for us. The only money we have is thru donations weekly to pay for the space we use for our teacher to come to….after reading all the above I am feeling really grateful that we have been able to continue for 11 years….
    I just found your blog, thank you!!!

    • No problem! I’m glad you like the blog. This post got some great discussion on how to fund a zendo. My situation is very similar to yours. Ours is smallers (15-20 ppl) and our money comes only from member donations but it seems to keep us going well enough. The thing is that membership, at times, fell to 2 people but they kept on sitting doing what they were doing and it has grown.

      We made an agreement with local yoga studio to let us practice in their space for no cost. We usually give a holiday thank you gift though. Our teacher comes out from Denver once or twice a year (or we go out there) but I’ve been thinking that weekly or month skype-dharma talks may be a cheaper and easier alternative.



  13. There’s a critical difference between practicing Zen and other endeavors. If, for example, your efforts are directed towards saving for retirement, your money builds up in the bank, and at some point it may be fine to stop saving, and just live off what you’ve accummulated from past efforts.

    In practicing Zen (e.g., keeping a clear mind), nothing is accummulated. You may practice for decades, having countless moments of clarity. You will never reach the point where you rest on past achievement. Each day, each moment, is a new challenge/opportunity to meet the fresh situation with clarity and compassion.

    Desires arise endlessly, so our practice vow must be for infinite time. Any idea that we’ve gotten something is the thought of a demon.

    Genpo says:

    > I had a big breakthrough in June around the issue of
    > caring and not caring and I feel I deeply, deeply, deeply
    > care about all sentient beings. And all my work has
    > evolved all sentient beings, where you have to become
    > more conscious.

    Of course it’s wonderful to TRY to help other beings. As for holding I/my/me ideas (like “I had a big breakthrough” or “I deeply care about all beings” or “My work has evolved all sentient beings”… it’s highly dubious if that’s the mark of a good teacher.


  14. The real lesson is to let go, this entire thread, pointless, lots of talk little ZA lots of talk little ZEN. ZAZEN is free. You don’t need a GURU or BUDDHA to tell you that. Air is free, you come with nothing you leave with nothing. This thread….pointless. Talk less, worry less, attack less, suffer less…let go.

    Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful people.

    • “Talk less, worry less, attack less, suffer less…let go.”

      … disconnect, ignore, float free, just let gooooo…*blech*

      This type of mindless dribble is the exact reason that New Agers can manipulate so well.



  15. I’m a former ZCLA person. I watched it all. The residents were rushing to get the EST training and then came Voice Dialogue at Genpo’s request. He seemed totally in awe of these trainings and I guess ultimately took what he needed to establish the Big Mind.
    The ZCLA in the late 70’s and 80’s was full of scandal. There was lots of drinking and affairs by most of the teachers there. Dharma heirs , in my opinion, either had made major donations and or contributed in other ways (if you know what I mean).
    I knew ZCLA was in trouble when the plaques went up on the doors of the Padma building. Roshi was “President”. It went downhill from there. Everyone wanted to be important and egos were big. So goes Zen in America.

    • Big Business Zen…

      While I don’t have any direct experience in ZCLA or any of the numerous zendos that have been struck with scandals the past few decades. I assume it is to be expected with so much experimentation.

      For me a zendo is not so important to my practice – especially if it begins to feel disconnected from my own view of the Dharma.



  16. I happen to like the place. I bring my children there almost every Sunday and, between the sitting and the talks, I leave feeling very good about this world. My children spend time in a lovely home next door with gentle people who play with them, read to them and teach them a little bit about meditation. They eat fruit and snack on cookies. They did not ask any money for this until recently. Last month they suggested a $1.00 donation per child to pay for paper, crayons and the aforementioned fruit and cookies, I suppose. My children love being there and I love that they can be in such a peaceful and soulful place. They were given a lesson in how to take care of the rock garden last month and it was beautiful to see these children crouching down, picking leaves out of the tiny rocks, and developing respect for the garden.

    It has only been 1 1/2 years that I have been visiting the Big Mind Western Zen Center. I have never been asked to pay for anything. I donate a few dollars here and there and do it happily. It feels right to help out in some small way. There are those, I am sure, that help out in a much more generous manner. What I trust is that they are doing what they feel good about also.

    Anyway, I do find Big Mind to be useful in my life. Genpo Roshi seems very kind, as do all the other teachers that give talks there. I also love to listen to Buddhist Geeks and Zencast regularly. Point is, it’s all good.


    • Thanks for your comment, Jenny. I appreciate that this thread is continuing and it is helpful to hear from someone that has had a positive experience with Big Mind.



  17. This latest on Genpo:

    “On January 20th, 2011 Merzel admitted to a multiyear affair with KC “Kyozen Sato” Gerpheide one of his students and successors during his annual retreat in Ameland, Holland. During the time in question Gerpheide received Dharma Transmission in the Soto Zen lineage from Merzel. Merzel and his current wife Stephanie Young Merzel are separated and seeking divorce.”

    It was also on his Wiki before someone decided to censor it.

  18. Let me just say this: At Zen Mountain, in New York, the abbot is paid the exact same amount as the monks. They are all paid $100.00 a month plus room, board, use of car, etc. They really live this model and there is no rich abbot with 3 houses, motorcycle, etc. Everyone works together, all board decisions are public to students, and there are no hidden financial agendas. It really can work and has for 30 years at Zen Mountain. I wish more would look at their example but they are not much for tooting their own horn. It is the best run organization I have ever seen and that includes several years as a business consultant. Regarding Genpo Roshi I have very strong feelings but in the name of compassion I will keep them to myself and hope he can get some healing and be of service in the world.

  19. Come on folks, Dennis, whether consciously or unconsciously is shedding the robes purposely…this way he doesn’t bare the responsibilty of adhearing to the Zen precepts, and can pursue his capitalist pursuit of “Big Mind”, or bigger bucks.
    He got laid on the way is just a perk.
    Heck he suduced his current wife while she as a student away from a body builder finance when they came to his den of enlightment looking for like others, answers to this life’s experience. Why would it be a surprise now…like Tiger, this is the tip of iceberg…how many others have savored his “darma stick”?
    So he is the Alpha male, and made Diane perform fellacio as part of her accepting of the Darma, so what?
    Rich, the ass kisser, now having stuck it out for so many years as a parasite of the center, is now elevated, only strikes me of the obsurdity of the Center.
    The little in group of jews there, mentally masterbating and getting paid for it, are recieving their just reward for their spewing of enlightment at a price. While they dine on expensive meals, their sangha eat gruel…get the picture?
    A black eye? No, an expression of the demigod like position they created by so much “bs”, and karma mo foe.
    Good bye, man of little manness.

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